scuola Nobukuni

[Kitsune 0]

Bonjour,

Suriage wakizashi fatto da una generazione Nobukuni ,

Ne parlant pas italien, j'écris en français

Wakizashi suriage attribué à une génération Nobukuni, mais laquelle?? La gravure est typique, dans la rainure.

 

[Massimo Rossi 3]

Molto interessante anche l' orimono è di buona qualità. nello hi cè srcitto: Hachi Man Dai Bosatsu. Per quanto riguareda la generazione và un pò studiata.

[GianC.B. 0]

it's very difficult to give an attribution from this photo. i can't see hamon and hada. however the horimono is very well done. is this blade your? or is the picture taken from a book? i think i saw a similar blade on an old book. i must search.

G.

[Kitsune 0]

This blade is mine.

[GianC.B. 0]

This blade is mine.

very good. i will try to find the similar blade pubblished.

[Kitsune 0]

Kitae : itame with mokume and coarse grain formation o hada, chikei and fine ji nie

hamon : hoso suguha, nioi structure and fine nie, ko maru bôshi with a long kaeri.

 

[Kitsune 0]

Merci de votre participation.

[Massimo Rossi 3]

Félicitations pour ce beau lame.

 

Massimo Rossi Togishi.

Segreteria I.N.T.K.

[paolo placidi 20]

Allego due immagine per meglio apprezzare la qualità degli Horimono

 

 

[Kitsune 0]

Allego due immagine per meglio apprezzare la qualità degli Horimono

 

 

FR - Horimono 1.jpg FR - Horimono 2.jpg

Une lame de Saemon no Jo Nobukuni. Je ne pense pas que l'horimono sur ma lame soit de lui. mais sugata, kitae et hamon se ressemblent.

 

[paolo placidi 20]

Just to suggest an idea about a possible (???) era, I enclose a Ko-wakizashi (Ubu) from Gorōzaemon (no) Jō Kiyomitsu (late Muromachi):

 

Mei: Bizen Kuni Jū Gorōzaemon (no) Jō Kiyomitsu - Tenbun 3 nen 8 Gatsu (1534)

 

Hawatari: 36,58 cm

Sori: 0,45 cm

Moto-haba: 3,25 cm

Moto-kasane: 0,79 cm

 

Hada : Koitame mixed Mokume, Jinie

Hamon: Niedeki, Sugu-ha mixed Kogunome, Koashi

Horimono: Sō (no) kurikara (Omote) and ""Hachiman Dai Bosatsu" (Ura)

 

 

Modificato: 5 settembre 2013 da Paolo Placidi

[paolo placidi 20]

Serge, if it's true that the Nagasa is connected with the era, look at:

http://www.intk-token.it/forum/index.php?showtopic=8063

 

Good luck !

Modificato: 5 settembre 2013 da Paolo Placidi

[Kitsune 0]

Thank you Paolo. this blade is not in the Bizen style, but Nobukuni school.

Excellent table

[GianC.B. 0]

Actually there were some different smith that used the name "Nobukuni".

Nagayama states: there were some generation of Nobukuni:

Nobukuni I° (Ryokai's son, Hisanobu's grandson)early to mid 1300

Nobukuni II°mid 1300

Nobukuni III° late 1300---> 1430 approximately.

Minamoto Saemon no Jo(=Genzaemon no jo) Nobukuni (oei)

Minamoto Shikibu no jo Nubukuni (oei)

another Nobukuni(?)(oei)

and Nobusada(oei)

they are probably the ancestors of the shinto Nobukuni school of Chikuzen province(not of ours interest, according to the sugata of the blade).

The "original" Nobukuni school has its origin in Yamashiro province, and Nobukuni I° was a student of Sadamune(according to old records).

Actually there are some different approaches in the study of Nobukuni school:

one consider the Nobukuni active around Kenmu(1334-1338) as the first generation and the Nobukuni active around Enbun(1356-1361) as the second generation,as you can read in the connoisseur's book of japanese book(Nagayama).

But a different approach consider the Nobukuni of Enbun era as the true founder(and I°gen) of the school. this approach is motivated from the oldest Nobukuni blade know with a date in the mei(1358) and the workmanship extremely similar to the blades attribuited to the "first" generation.

 

if we follow this idea we have only four Nobukuni generations, and other (minor)smith of this school that signed with the name "Nobukuni", but their work is often recognizable for the different workmanship/quality, or for kanji/style used in the mei.

unfortunately your blades is mumei and we can't follow this road.

 

Regarding workmanship, the Nobukuni school of Nambokucho period used two different styles: the classic "Yamashiro style" and subsequently a "Soshu style" derived from the style of Sadamune. but in the Oei era we can find a new style also: a midareba resemblig the osafune gunome-midare. this style is found firstly(even if very rare) in blades dated to Eitoku and Meitoku(late Nambokucho period), developed by the II° gen.

it's generally accepted that the first(enbun) and second generations produce the better blades from this school. i can't judge the quality of your blade from that picture, but if the blade is rich in ko-nie, it's possible it was made in the Nambokucho period.

then, unfortunately, the hamon of your blades is the only used from all Nobukuni generations.

the horimono is very typical and made by a good engraver, but all the Nobukuni masters were regarded as good engravers.

I think your blade was submitted to a noticeable suriage, observing the positioning of the horimono.

 

another difference betwen Nambokucho and Muromachi-oei blades is the kasane thickness, can you tell us the measure of your blade? can you measure it also in the thicker point of nakago?

 

I think this is probably a way to know something more about your blade.

 

the blade by Saemon no Jo Nobukuni(III° generation, Oei era) in your post has, of course, a noticeable similiraty with your blade. your blade can be of this smith, of course.

 

G.

[Kitsune 0]

Actually there were some different smith that used the name "Nobukuni".

Nagayama states: there were some generation of Nobukuni:

Nobukuni I° (Ryokai's son, Hisanobu's grandson)early to mid 1300

Nobukuni II°mid 1300

Nobukuni III° late 1300---> 1430 approximately.

Minamoto Saemon no Jo(=Genzaemon no jo) Nobukuni (oei)

Minamoto Shikibu no jo Nubukuni (oei)

another Nobukuni(?)(oei)

and Nobusada(oei)

they are probably the ancestors of the shinto Nobukuni school of Chikuzen province(not of ours interest, according to the sugata of the blade).

The "original" Nobukuni school has its origin in Yamashiro province, and Nobukuni I° was a student of Sadamune(according to old records).

Actually there are some different approaches in the study of Nobukuni school:

one consider the Nobukuni active around Kenmu(1334-1338) as the first generation and the Nobukuni active around Enbun(1356-1361) as the second generation,as you can read in the connoisseur's book of japanese book(Nagayama).

But a different approach consider the Nobukuni of Enbun era as the true founder(and I°gen) of the school. this approach is motivated from the oldest Nobukuni blade know with a date in the mei(1358) and the workmanship extremely similar to the blades attribuited to the "first" generation.

 

if we follow this idea we have only four Nobukuni generations, and other (minor)smith of this school that signed with the name "Nobukuni", but their work is often recognizable for the different workmanship/quality, or for kanji/style used in the mei.

unfortunately your blades is mumei and we can't follow this road.

 

Regarding workmanship, the Nobukuni school of Nambokucho period used two different styles: the classic "Yamashiro style" and subsequently a "Soshu style" derived from the style of Sadamune. but in the Oei era we can find a new style also: a midareba resemblig the osafune gunome-midare. this style is found firstly(even if very rare) in blades dated to Eitoku and Meitoku(late Nambokucho period), developed by the II° gen.

it's generally accepted that the first(enbun) and second generations produce the better blades from this school. i can't judge the quality of your blade from that picture, but if the blade is rich in ko-nie, it's possible it was made in the Nambokucho period.

then, unfortunately, the hamon of your blades is the only used from all Nobukuni generations.

the horimono is very typical and made by a good engraver, but all the Nobukuni masters were regarded as good engravers.

I think your blade was submitted to a noticeable suriage, observing the positioning of the horimono.

 

another difference betwen Nambokucho and Muromachi-oei blades is the kasane thickness, can you tell us the measure of your blade? can you measure it also in the thicker point of nakago?

 

I think this is probably a way to know something more about your blade.

 

the blade by Saemon no Jo Nobukuni(III° generation, Oei era) in your post has, of course, a noticeable similiraty with your blade. your blade can be of this smith, of course.

 

G.

This blade is, with certainty, muromachi. I don't think it's by Saemon no jo. I think she is by the next generation.

[GianC.B. 0]

Shikibu no Jo Nobukuni? can i ask why you think this? only couriosity... i can't see the blade.

it's very thick?

the shape is, of course, correct for Oei era, but we can find first examples of this sugata in the late Nambokucho also.

 

G.

[Kitsune 0]

Le dragon a une physionomie particulière avec des pattes "mécaniques" qu'on ne retrouve pas chez Saemon no Jo.

The dragon has a special character with "mechanical" legs that are not found in Saemon no Jo.

[GianC.B. 0]

Le dragon a une physionomie particulière avec des pattes "mécaniques" qu'on ne retrouve pas chez Saemon no Jo.

The dragon has a special character with "mechanical" legs that are not found in Saemon no Jo.

have you got any "close up" of the horimono? excuse me but i can't see it very well from your pics. can you provide the kasane measure also?