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Rinnovo/Iscrizioni N.B.T.H.K. Italian Branch 2024

La Branch italiana è un piccolo organismo, sostenuto dall’impegno e dalla passione di pochi, ma risulta molto importante per lo sviluppo dei nostri studi sulla token. Vi esortiamo a prendere in considerazione l’idea di far parte di questo gruppo, non solo per progredire nello studio ma anche per diventarne sostenitori attivi. Oltre ad essere economicamente vantaggioso per chi vuole essere socio N.B.T.H.K., permette di avere un contatto privilegiato con la Sede Centrale a Tokyo, dando l'accesso a canali di studio altrimenti impensabili per un occidentale, come accaduto durante l'ultimo Special Meeting.
Chi è interessato e desidera avere maggiori informazioni, che sia già Socio INTK o meno, può contattare il Presidente Gianluca Venier entro il 20 marzo direttamente via email: nbthk.italianbranch@gmail.com

Robi71

Importanza certificato NBTHK

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Buongiorno a tutti e buone feste!!

Pongo a voi una semplice domanda.

Nella scelta di una lama, a parità di prezzo, meglio optare per una con certificato?

Oppure è un particolare trascurabile dal punto di vista della qualità di realizzazione?

Grazie a tutti...

Rinnovo gli auguri!!

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Ci sono lame senza certificato di alta qualità (forse perchè da tanto tempo in occidente oppure perchè è stato smarrito),ovviamentese avendo la certificazione (se originale),la lama ha una garanzia.

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Domanda complessa; risposta banale e apparentemente scontata: sarebbe meglio studiare le lame al punto di capire da soli la qualità di un oggetto, senza aiuto di altri, è ovvio che anche avendo questa competenza poi la lama la devi vedere, valutarne la qualità su internet è quasi impossibile.

Ci sono poi tutte le considerazioni legate al certificato, che diventa quella che noi pensiamo sia un'assicurazione sulla bontà dell'oggetto, tipo autentiche dei quadri e che rassicura tutti i collezionisti che poco ci azzeccano. Il disorso teorico sarebbe corretto, nella pratica l'aviidità umana vanifica le buone intenzioni e il mercato di certificati ed autentiche viaggia a pieno ritmo; mi sembra che uno dei responsabili NBTHK si sia suicidato tempo fa per lo scandalo dei certificati emessi assai allegramente (i certificati di tale associazione emessi negli anni 70/80 son da prendere un pò con le molle, ci sono siti che li vendono a 30 $, chissa cosa ne fanno quelli che li comprano). Anche il mondo dell'arte è un cimitero di autentiche, mi interesso un pò e ho visto cose che voi umani non potete immaginare..

Detto questo qui in occidente la spada certificata si vende meglio, prova è il fatto che tutti i siti giapponesi che vendono via internet in occidente propongono quasi tutte lame col suo bravo certificato, mentre i collezionisti giapponesi se ne fregano un pò di più del foglietto (a meno che non sia una Tokubetsu Juyo!). Ricorda poi che Hozon token significa semplicemente che è una spada vera, non un capolavoro.....forse sarebbe meglio un sayagaki di Sato Kanzan o un vecchio certificato NTHK che i foglietti atttuali..chiediti intanto perchè ci sono in giro un sacco di Tadahiro a xxx yen, ma poi per quella Juyo ti chiedono 30 volte di più..

:ichiban:

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Ci sono lame senza certificato di alta qualità (forse perchè da tanto tempo in occidente oppure perchè è stato smarrito),ovviamentese avendo la certificazione (se originale),la lama ha una garanzia.

Grazie per la risposta!

Quindi un minimo di sicurezza su quello che si acquista c'è.....

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Domanda complessa; risposta banale e apparentemente scontata: sarebbe meglio studiare le lame al punto di capire da soli la qualità di un oggetto, senza aiuto di altri, è ovvio che anche avendo questa competenza poi la lama la devi vedere, valutarne la qualità su internet è quasi impossibile.

Ci sono poi tutte le considerazioni legate al certificato, che diventa quella che noi pensiamo sia un'assicurazione sulla bontà dell'oggetto, tipo autentiche dei quadri e che rassicura tutti i collezionisti che poco ci azzeccano. Il disorso teorico sarebbe corretto, nella pratica l'aviidità umana vanifica le buone intenzioni e il mercato di certificati ed autentiche viaggia a pieno ritmo; mi sembra che uno dei responsabili NBTHK si sia suicidato tempo fa per lo scandalo dei certificati emessi assai allegramente (i certificati di tale associazione emessi negli anni 70/80 son da prendere un pò con le molle, ci sono siti che li vendono a 30 $, chissa cosa ne fanno quelli che li comprano). Anche il mondo dell'arte è un cimitero di autentiche, mi interesso un pò e ho visto cose che voi umani non potete immaginare..

Detto questo qui in occidente la spada certificata si vende meglio, prova è il fatto che tutti i siti giapponesi che vendono via internet in occidente propongono quasi tutte lame col suo bravo certificato, mentre i collezionisti giapponesi se ne fregano un pò di più del foglietto (a meno che non sia una Tokubetsu Juyo!). Ricorda poi che Hozon token significa semplicemente che è una spada vera, non un capolavoro.....forse sarebbe meglio un sayagaki di Sato Kanzan o un vecchio certificato NTHK che i foglietti atttuali..chiediti intanto perchè ci sono in giro un sacco di Tadahiro a xxx yen, ma poi per quella Juyo ti chiedono 30 volte di più..

:ichiban:

Grazie per la risposta molto esplicativa!!

Quello che intendo meglio del suo discorso e' proprio il fatto che prima bisognerebbe sviluppare certe conoscenze in modo da poter valutare quello che si ha fra le mani.. Senza preoccuparsi troppo di pezzi di carta che magari neanche sono autentici...

Certo che per incominciare a comprendere dovrei "vedere" oltre che studiarci.. Spero di riuscire a organizzarmi, magari tramite l'associazione per visionare qualche lama vera!!

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Il certificato può essere un valore aggiunto a livello commerciale, ma di sicuro non aumenta in nessun modo il valore artistico della lama nè tanto meno una lama priva è meno valida di una certificata.



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Un paio di link sull'argomento:

 

http://nihontoclub.com/node/12802

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_papers.html

 

Molto saggio questo articolo di Ted Tenold. (purtroppo, essendo il Direttore dell' American Branch della NBTHK, è di parte e quindi esorta i possessori di un certificato NBTHK del 'vecchio ordinamento' a farselo rifare nuovo; naturalmente a pagamento. Quello che ovviamente non dice è che non tutti i vecchi certificati sono da considerare inaffidabili.)

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/articles/Gentle-Advice.pdf

Modificato: da G.Luca Venier

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Un articolo interessante di Robert Haynes :

 

 

The Nihon Bijutsu Token Hozon Kyokai (N.B.T.H.K.), The Japanese Art Sword Preservation Society, has a history of just fifty to fifty-five years. During the United States occupation of Japan after World War II, General Mac Arthur was urged by many to destroy all the available Japanese swords that were extant in Japan. Not wanting to deal with this matter directly, he turned this problem over to Colonel Cadwell, who then needed the advice of a sword "expert" in Japan. This expert turned out to be Dr. Homma. After much consultation, and discussion with others, it was decided to try and save the swords of Japan, and to regard them as art objects, and not as weapons per se. Now Dr. Homma had the blessing of the authority of the occupation. At this time Dr. Homma enlisted the help of his student, Dr. Sato. These two created the N.B.T.H.K., at this time to give authenticity to the project of saving the swords in Japan. Naturally they had no control over the many thousands of swords gathered in various warehouses, except to try and go through them and pull out the better blades they found, but this proved such a huge task that only a small percentage of the best blades were recovered. That is why there were as many fine blades, and fittings, to be seen in the United States, mostly brought to the States by military personnel, from Japan after 1945. Dr. Homma felt that the only way he could get full control of the blades in Japan was to give his society as much legitimacy as possible. Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato found office space in the basement of the National Museum at Ueno Park, and there they setup business. Since they were the only ones who had the full authority of Mac Arthur and Cadwell, no other societies were formed at that time. The greatest problem for Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato was that they had no money to run such a society, and the occupation forces gave them only enough to survive. Dr. Homma then thought of the idea of "registering" all the blades he came across, for a fee, and then his society would have some funds. The occupation authority thought this was a great idea, never knowing that they would never get their hands on the records of the registered blades, that the N.B.T.H.K. would practically control the whereabouts of almost all blades in Japan, and later all those registered blades, OUTSIDE of Japan. It was not very long before these registration fees began to add up, slowly making the N.B.T.H.K., very powerful indeed!

After the end of the occupation of Japan, there were restraints or restrictions on the powers of the N.B.T.H.K. Homma decided that there should be "chapters" of the society in any area that wished to form one, such as Takamatsu, Okayama, and Kumamoto. Next an annual tour of all these chapters was commenced, with the object of registering all the blades that could be found. Naturally most of these blades belonged to the dealers who were now back in business after the war. Old time private collectors did not want their collections seen, or registered, by the N.B.T.H.K., and most of them have not been to this day. These various "chapters" of the N.B.T.H.K., who had hosted Dr. Homma, and Sato, and the Tokyo contingent, as they toured the country, felt that they should get a larger cut of the money raised from the certificates issued for the blades viewed in their districts, Tokyo naturally felt that most of the money should be theirs. The upshot of this dispute was the eventual dissolution of the "chapters" and all the power, and money returning to the Tokyo headquarters. Now, I am sorry to say, we must tackle the problem of "certificates", and all manner of other types of "paper". The dealers and private collectors who were paying the fees that were being collected by the "chapters", and the Tokyo group, had to have something for their money, and that turned out to be the various colored papers that we have seen everywhere for the last fifty years. These papers were designed to be "insurance policies" for the owner in case he wished to sell the blade, most often to the dealer from whom he had bought it. As we well know the information on these papers is very scant; just enough to identify the piece. They were never intended to tell you more than this.

In these early days of the society, there were "white papers", "green papers" etc. This was very clever, indeed. You first paid for a "white paper", but you really wanted a "green paper" so you paid a second fee to upgrade your piece, and the N.B.T.H.K. got richer and richer. A good friend of mine in 1960, Masahiro Ide, a fourth generation sword dealer of impeccable reputation, who lived in Okayama, explained how this all worked. When he sold a blade to a new collector he told the person that a "paper" would come with the blade. As the N.B.T.H.K. toured the country, Masahiro submitted his blade until it got a white paper, then he resubmitted it until it got a green paper, often because they were so tired of seeing the blade, they did not want to look at it again. At that time he could then throw the white paper away. This green paper went to the new buyer of the blade and everyone was happy, mostly the N.B.T.H.K., for all the fees it had collected in this process, which was the same for most dealers. The N.B.T.H.K. no longer tours the county in this fashion. They do not need to, for now all collectors and dealers come to them, they no longer have to go to the country to write papers to earn fees. In fact by 1970 they had become so successful, and powerful, that these "papers" gave "value" to a blade. At that time the Yakusa was back in full swing and had made loans to some individuals who had put up blades as collateral for their loan. The Yakusa had no idea if these blades did equal the value of the loan, so it is alleged, they went to the N.B.T.H.K. to find out. Even the N.B.T.H.K. was not powerful enough to stand up to the Yakusa, so they issued "papers" that said the blades were genuine, even if the signature was fake, and thus the Yakusa could get their money out of the blade, if it were not redeemed. One still sees some of these "fake" papers floating around. This problem became so bad that the N.B.T.H.K. had to change the color of its papers so dealers and collectors would know that these new "certificates" were genuine.

As the years passed the N.B.T.H.K. had enough money to build at their present location and to form a very fine collection of blades and fittings of their own. When the Western collectors became fully interested in forming clubs and societies, they wanted to know if the blades they owned where genuine and had value. John Yumoto was able to have Dr. Homma, Dr. Sato, and others, come to the West and view the blades and fittings of the Western collectors. For a fee they issued "papers" for the pieces they thought were the best examples they saw. The Western collectors paid for these trips, in full, and for the papers as well. What the foreign collectors did not know was the reason the N.B.T.H.K., and others, came to the West in the first place. By seeing these many blades and fittings, and registering the best of them, they knew exactly where all the finest pieces were outside of Japan. It did not take long for others to come to the West and try to buy these best pieces. In fact it was not too many years before many of the blades they wanted "restored" to Japan were back "home". This all went on for many years and in some ways even extended to some great museums and institutions that had some pieces returned to Japan. Some Western collectors did give some blades of high value back to Japan, through the N.B.T.H.K. in most cases. The Yakusa were not the only ones who received "special" favors from the N.B.T.H.K. The Western collectors who were important enough to be "recognized" as superior, had papers written for them that were far more favorable to the pieces than if the same piece had belonged to a Japanese collector. At that time they needed powerful foreigners and did not expect that any of the boxes or papers they gave for pieces outside of Japan, would ever be seen inside of Japan again. A good case in point were some of the papers written for Dr. Compton. So one should be very careful of all papers, for the reason the paper was written may be as important as the piece itself.

During the years of Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato, the N.B.T.H.K, did publish a number of fine books on swords and fittings, many of which we use to this day. After the administration period of Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato, the N.B.T.H.K. had a number of other officers who took their places. Today the chairman of the N.B.T.H.K. is Mr. Yamanaka Sadanori, and the managing director is Mr. Suzuki Kajo, I have never met either of these gentlemen. The only person from the "early" days that I know very well is the scholar and expert Michihiro Tanobe, who unfortunately I have not seen in many years. Not all the great experts of the past remained members of the N.B.T.H.K. Both Wakayama and Sasano left the ranks of the N.B.T.H.K., and never returned. Dr. Torigoye, as early as 1959-60, was asked to be the fittings expert of the N.B.T.H.K., but they told him that "their" expert could not live in a provincial place like Okayama, and that he would have to move to Tokyo to be their expert. He politely declined, and never was a member of the N.B.T.H.K., or any other group or society in his many years as a teacher. Because the old collectors had very little to do with the N.B.T.H.K., and did not want the pieces in their collections seen or registered by the N.B.T.H.K., the primary relationship of the N.B.T.H.K. was with the many sword dealers, and new young collectors who formed their collections after the war. This same relationship was formed with the Western collectors and dealers. Today whose who use the services of the N.B.T.H.K, do so with the idea that the pieces that receive "papers" are of superior importance in the collecting world. This "legitimacy" has come to color all the collecting and study of the blades and fittings, both inside and outside of Japan. The value of any sword or fitting should be determined by the owner of that piece when he has given it full and sufficient study, based on his own research and consultation. If we are speaking of value as "money", then any "papers" will do for any piece, so that the price will be maintained or increased, but that has nothing to do with study and research. In the last twenty years the N.B.T.H.K. has seen its power and influence control almost all of the Japanese sword world, both commercially and intellectually. In my opinion, Dr. Homma and Colonel Cadwell, would be surprised, shocked, saddened, and appalled, at what has become of their dream of fifty years ago.

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Il certificato può essere un valore aggiunto a livello commerciale, ma di sicuro non aumenta in nessun modo il valore artistico della lama nè tanto meno una lama priva è meno valida di una certificata.

 

grazie per l'interesse e per la risposta

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Un articolo interessante di Robert Haynes :

 

 

The Nihon Bijutsu Token Hozon Kyokai (N.B.T.H.K.), The Japanese Art Sword Preservation Society, has a history of just fifty to fifty-five years. During the United States occupation of Japan after World War II, General Mac Arthur was urged by many to destroy all the available Japanese swords that were extant in Japan. Not wanting to deal with this matter directly, he turned this problem over to Colonel Cadwell, who then needed the advice of a sword "expert" in Japan. This expert turned out to be Dr. Homma. After much consultation, and discussion with others, it was decided to try and save the swords of Japan, and to regard them as art objects, and not as weapons per se. Now Dr. Homma had the blessing of the authority of the occupation. At this time Dr. Homma enlisted the help of his student, Dr. Sato. These two created the N.B.T.H.K., at this time to give authenticity to the project of saving the swords in Japan. Naturally they had no control over the many thousands of swords gathered in various warehouses, except to try and go through them and pull out the better blades they found, but this proved such a huge task that only a small percentage of the best blades were recovered. That is why there were as many fine blades, and fittings, to be seen in the United States, mostly brought to the States by military personnel, from Japan after 1945. Dr. Homma felt that the only way he could get full control of the blades in Japan was to give his society as much legitimacy as possible. Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato found office space in the basement of the National Museum at Ueno Park, and there they setup business. Since they were the only ones who had the full authority of Mac Arthur and Cadwell, no other societies were formed at that time. The greatest problem for Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato was that they had no money to run such a society, and the occupation forces gave them only enough to survive. Dr. Homma then thought of the idea of "registering" all the blades he came across, for a fee, and then his society would have some funds. The occupation authority thought this was a great idea, never knowing that they would never get their hands on the records of the registered blades, that the N.B.T.H.K. would practically control the whereabouts of almost all blades in Japan, and later all those registered blades, OUTSIDE of Japan. It was not very long before these registration fees began to add up, slowly making the N.B.T.H.K., very powerful indeed!

After the end of the occupation of Japan, there were restraints or restrictions on the powers of the N.B.T.H.K. Homma decided that there should be "chapters" of the society in any area that wished to form one, such as Takamatsu, Okayama, and Kumamoto. Next an annual tour of all these chapters was commenced, with the object of registering all the blades that could be found. Naturally most of these blades belonged to the dealers who were now back in business after the war. Old time private collectors did not want their collections seen, or registered, by the N.B.T.H.K., and most of them have not been to this day. These various "chapters" of the N.B.T.H.K., who had hosted Dr. Homma, and Sato, and the Tokyo contingent, as they toured the country, felt that they should get a larger cut of the money raised from the certificates issued for the blades viewed in their districts, Tokyo naturally felt that most of the money should be theirs. The upshot of this dispute was the eventual dissolution of the "chapters" and all the power, and money returning to the Tokyo headquarters. Now, I am sorry to say, we must tackle the problem of "certificates", and all manner of other types of "paper". The dealers and private collectors who were paying the fees that were being collected by the "chapters", and the Tokyo group, had to have something for their money, and that turned out to be the various colored papers that we have seen everywhere for the last fifty years. These papers were designed to be "insurance policies" for the owner in case he wished to sell the blade, most often to the dealer from whom he had bought it. As we well know the information on these papers is very scant; just enough to identify the piece. They were never intended to tell you more than this.

In these early days of the society, there were "white papers", "green papers" etc. This was very clever, indeed. You first paid for a "white paper", but you really wanted a "green paper" so you paid a second fee to upgrade your piece, and the N.B.T.H.K. got richer and richer. A good friend of mine in 1960, Masahiro Ide, a fourth generation sword dealer of impeccable reputation, who lived in Okayama, explained how this all worked. When he sold a blade to a new collector he told the person that a "paper" would come with the blade. As the N.B.T.H.K. toured the country, Masahiro submitted his blade until it got a white paper, then he resubmitted it until it got a green paper, often because they were so tired of seeing the blade, they did not want to look at it again. At that time he could then throw the white paper away. This green paper went to the new buyer of the blade and everyone was happy, mostly the N.B.T.H.K., for all the fees it had collected in this process, which was the same for most dealers. The N.B.T.H.K. no longer tours the county in this fashion. They do not need to, for now all collectors and dealers come to them, they no longer have to go to the country to write papers to earn fees. In fact by 1970 they had become so successful, and powerful, that these "papers" gave "value" to a blade. At that time the Yakusa was back in full swing and had made loans to some individuals who had put up blades as collateral for their loan. The Yakusa had no idea if these blades did equal the value of the loan, so it is alleged, they went to the N.B.T.H.K. to find out. Even the N.B.T.H.K. was not powerful enough to stand up to the Yakusa, so they issued "papers" that said the blades were genuine, even if the signature was fake, and thus the Yakusa could get their money out of the blade, if it were not redeemed. One still sees some of these "fake" papers floating around. This problem became so bad that the N.B.T.H.K. had to change the color of its papers so dealers and collectors would know that these new "certificates" were genuine.

As the years passed the N.B.T.H.K. had enough money to build at their present location and to form a very fine collection of blades and fittings of their own. When the Western collectors became fully interested in forming clubs and societies, they wanted to know if the blades they owned where genuine and had value. John Yumoto was able to have Dr. Homma, Dr. Sato, and others, come to the West and view the blades and fittings of the Western collectors. For a fee they issued "papers" for the pieces they thought were the best examples they saw. The Western collectors paid for these trips, in full, and for the papers as well. What the foreign collectors did not know was the reason the N.B.T.H.K., and others, came to the West in the first place. By seeing these many blades and fittings, and registering the best of them, they knew exactly where all the finest pieces were outside of Japan. It did not take long for others to come to the West and try to buy these best pieces. In fact it was not too many years before many of the blades they wanted "restored" to Japan were back "home". This all went on for many years and in some ways even extended to some great museums and institutions that had some pieces returned to Japan. Some Western collectors did give some blades of high value back to Japan, through the N.B.T.H.K. in most cases. The Yakusa were not the only ones who received "special" favors from the N.B.T.H.K. The Western collectors who were important enough to be "recognized" as superior, had papers written for them that were far more favorable to the pieces than if the same piece had belonged to a Japanese collector. At that time they needed powerful foreigners and did not expect that any of the boxes or papers they gave for pieces outside of Japan, would ever be seen inside of Japan again. A good case in point were some of the papers written for Dr. Compton. So one should be very careful of all papers, for the reason the paper was written may be as important as the piece itself.

During the years of Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato, the N.B.T.H.K, did publish a number of fine books on swords and fittings, many of which we use to this day. After the administration period of Dr. Homma and Dr. Sato, the N.B.T.H.K. had a number of other officers who took their places. Today the chairman of the N.B.T.H.K. is Mr. Yamanaka Sadanori, and the managing director is Mr. Suzuki Kajo, I have never met either of these gentlemen. The only person from the "early" days that I know very well is the scholar and expert Michihiro Tanobe, who unfortunately I have not seen in many years. Not all the great experts of the past remained members of the N.B.T.H.K. Both Wakayama and Sasano left the ranks of the N.B.T.H.K., and never returned. Dr. Torigoye, as early as 1959-60, was asked to be the fittings expert of the N.B.T.H.K., but they told him that "their" expert could not live in a provincial place like Okayama, and that he would have to move to Tokyo to be their expert. He politely declined, and never was a member of the N.B.T.H.K., or any other group or society in his many years as a teacher. Because the old collectors had very little to do with the N.B.T.H.K., and did not want the pieces in their collections seen or registered by the N.B.T.H.K., the primary relationship of the N.B.T.H.K. was with the many sword dealers, and new young collectors who formed their collections after the war. This same relationship was formed with the Western collectors and dealers. Today whose who use the services of the N.B.T.H.K, do so with the idea that the pieces that receive "papers" are of superior importance in the collecting world. This "legitimacy" has come to color all the collecting and study of the blades and fittings, both inside and outside of Japan. The value of any sword or fitting should be determined by the owner of that piece when he has given it full and sufficient study, based on his own research and consultation. If we are speaking of value as "money", then any "papers" will do for any piece, so that the price will be maintained or increased, but that has nothing to do with study and research. In the last twenty years the N.B.T.H.K. has seen its power and influence control almost all of the Japanese sword world, both commercially and intellectually. In my opinion, Dr. Homma and Colonel Cadwell, would be surprised, shocked, saddened, and appalled, at what has become of their dream of fifty years ago.

 

interessante!!

grazie x le delucidazioni

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Buonasera a tutti,

riapro questo vecchio topic con un articolo scritto da Darcy Brockbank che trovo molto interessante e che deve far riflettere circa le certificazioni

 

Questa una introduzione:
"There are four levels of NBTHK papers: Hozon, Tokubetsu Hozon, Juyo and Tokubetsu Juyo. This four level ranking system unfortunately means that people end up with four slots in their head for placing an object’s importance and desirability.
This mistake takes its lead from the fact that it’s easy to grasp and remember four simple categories than it is to remember the vast and complex web of smiths, time periods, schools, their associations with each other, their place in history, as well as the myriad of individual qualities that make an item desirable."
Buona lettura:

"Indiana Jones e la lama perduta"

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Grazie per la condivisione Francesco! Articolo molto interessante.. Fa pensare!

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L'uomo è di parte, ma dice delle cose verissime.

Per altro, che sono state ripetute anche qui sul forum, in più di un'occasione.

Per quel che mi riguarda, il certificato vale poco.

Ma io non faccio testo, per me valgono poco anche le distribuzioni di nie: se la lama non mi passa qualche cosa, una sensazione, un'emozione, una energia, ...non so dirvi, ma senza di tutto ciò, per me ha poco valore.

Ma quando nasce un mercato, ne seguono necessariamente delle regole.

...E poiché gli studiosi sono pochi, il giochetto certificato - prezzo, finisce per imporsi nonostante.


 

月の道

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condivido. il che alla fine si può tradurre volendo anche con "una lama vale quanto uno vuole spenderci"... anche se però posso capire che sia una mia personale visione.

più generalmente parlando è giusto che il prezzo sia dettato non solo dal gusto ma anche dalle caratteristiche intrinseche dell'oggetto: rarità, storia, qualità.

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Si, tutto giusto, il bello forse è proprio questo, la relatività di un pezzo di carta, il gusto personale, un particolare sugata, tutte queste variabili affascinano questa passione.

Il pezzo di carta in fondo infatua soltanto il distratto o chi non vuole perder tempo a studiare l'argomento.

Fortunatamente esistono molte spade non certificate ma altrettanto emozionanti fortunatamente.


Antonio Vincenzo

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Grazie Francesco per il link.

Avevo letto questo articolo un mese fa ed ero rimasto assai perplesso.

Mi era parso un enorme dispendio intellettuale per dire una sola cosa: ogni spada è un universo a sé (e quindi per me non ha senso neppure lo schema "a circoli" proposto nell'articolo).

 

Questo concetto pare semplice ma in verità io stesso ci ho messo un bel pò a comprenderlo nel profondo.

Soprattutto, è un concetto difficile da applicare, poichè le occasioni per esaminare un buon numero di lame da vicino sono sempre scarse.

 

Comunque, non ci inganniamo, il problema non riguarda solo i neofiti. Ci sono anche molti studiosi che, in fondo in fondo, si fidano solo del pezzo di carta.

 

Infine la cosa un pò triste è che si finisce sempre a parlare di valore e di prezzo... suvvia, la spada non è solo possesso dell'oggetto, fattibile o sognato che sia ! :arigatou:

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hai ragione. Effettivamente l'opinione del team di sedicenti esperti, rassicura un po anche il più navigato degli studiosi, figuriamoci chi non ne capisce granchè o nulla proprio.... Infatti nella stragrande maggioranza dei casi il certificato ha la primaria funzione di certificare o di rendere verosimilmente credibile una firma od una attribuzione...

 

Non è nemmeno da stupirsi se poi alcune lame sono talmente belle e di alta qualità o con caratteristiche inequivocabili e non hanno certificato... Il certificato poi diventa superfluo.

 

Se hai di fronte l'eccellenza, non servono opinioni terze. Così parimenti se stai ammirando un lama di ottima qualità e che dimostra caratteristiche molto particolari.

 

D'altro canto puoi avere tra le mani una lama juyo di una scuola "mediocre". una lama perfettamente sana, ben polita, con nessun tipo di imperfezione estetica, firmata e datata, ma che non ha molto altro.

 

Il valore ed il prezzo purtroppo Gian saranno sempre l'ombra di questi oggetti... lo sono sempre stati fin dai tempo antichi anche in Giappone: qualsiasi oggetto ha un valore ed un prezzo, figuriamoci quelli collezionabili come le nihonto. Il problema per alcuni, o molti di noi, si pone pquando il valore più importante è quello storico, e queste lame non sono semplici oggetti d'arte con un semplice ma oggettivo valore monetario.

Personalmente ho imparato ad amare ed a rispettare moltissimo ciò che sta dietro la nascita e soprattutto la trasmissione di questi oggetti.

La loro compravendita in sè non mi da fastidio. Ciò che a volte mi fa storcere il naso sta che spesso manca il rispetto verso queste perle... e per tutto quello che le circonda.

Il rispetto non solo verso la lama in sè, ma anche per i vari custodi che nei secoli hanno, mi piace pensarlo, fatto di tutto per tramandarla. Per chi grazie ad essa ha dato o tolto la vota. Mantenuto o spezzato l'ordine e la quiete. Il Rispetto per chi la ha trattata come parte di sè o della propria famiglia... E per chi dovrà ancora riceverla e custodirla.

Ecco quindi che viene anche meno il semplice concetto di possesso... ed entra in campo quello di custodia.

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